EndLagNow.org Forums / EndLagNow.org Forums / ELN News and Announcements / Killer NIC Reviews have started coming out!!!! / Latest Posts

RE: Killer NIC Reviews have started coming out!!!!

Tytus — Mon, 11 Sep 2006 11:08:53 GMT

http://www.gdhardware.com/hardware/networking/bigfoot/killer/review/001.htm

Not sure what you mean about a lot of your post: it's very close to being considered flaming (and the mod's don't like that too much).

But the above linked reveiw is very objective from a very reputable site.

I do expect even more reviews soon.

As for Lag: heck yes! Keep up the fight, and that IS the whole point of this website.

Any manufacturer or maker of products that fight lag, or even game makers who make cool lagfighting games are more than welcome to post here...
Such as this one:http://endlagnow.org/ELNForums/Topic396-16-1.aspx

If you don't like the guys who run ELN (it's not me), you don't have to hang here... but please do contribute to some of the other topics if you have tips/gripes/etc about lag.

Tytus

RE: Killer NIC Reviews have started coming out!!!!

Sol — Mon, 11 Sep 2006 09:08:56 GMT

Ok I have been trying to find an objective 3rd party review that truly puts the killer nic through its paces. The IGN review was more like an overview.

Hard ocp was started off by sandbagging for the card
"First off, let’s get down to brass tacks. Unless you have $279.00 burning a hole in your pocket that you might be willing to spend on a NIC, then just stop reading right here."

They admit that they did not intend to review the card.
"Also, this is not a review or evaluation of this product. It is simply and outline of what the product is about."

Source: http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTE1MywxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==

I want to believe in this card, I just want to see some real, well-tested results before I pay $270 to occupy the ever shrinking expansion slot real estate on my mainboard.

So far all I have seen are overviews and excuses. The data that the community has seen comes from very small and poorly designed tests and is definately not enough to come to any conclusions over.

If Bigfoot Networks is truly dedicated to fighting lag then you'd all do well to make sure that different 3rd party reviewers get as many cards as they need and test test test them until they are bored to tears of testing. If your product works then there'd be nothing to hide, in fact you should be tripping over yourselves make sure this happens. Tom's hardware did the kind of testing that the Killer NIC needs when they reviewed Ageia PPU.

http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/06/19/can_ageia/

I don't care who does the review it just better be full of information and not just an overview. You guys had your time to do overviews when you were developing the card. If your card works then get it into the hands of as many well respected reviewers and let them test it. Otherwise you can forget ever seeing any of my money. In fact I’ll go out of my way to let every forum I frequent, clan I game with, and person in my life know that at the very least Bigfoot Networks has not proven that the public should spend 1 cent on the Killer NIC. I must say a visit to these forums has not inspired much confidence.

Tytus said:
"But Killer NIC isn't for everyone, and this website isn't just about Killer... so please keep contributing in the other areas, keep up the fight against Lag, and never give up: (Believe me, I havn't!!!)"

Ok Tytus maybe this site isnt 100% about Killer NIC but it is about reducing lag and lets face it you guys put up this site as a way to market your rather expensive but yet to be tested and verified NIC card. It sounds to me like you're backpedaling with this statement.

jeepdave said:
“Value is in the eye of the beholder....like Tytus said, it's not for everyone...neither is Quad SLI or 30" LCD's. I don't think there is any point to the "is it worth $300" debate. (It's $279, BTW).
Is a Corvette 'worth' $75k? A Kia Rio will get you from point A to point B for $8,999. “

The “ Its not for everyone”argument can be used for just about every item manufactured on the planet. That is not the point. Bigfoot Networks is claiming they can increase performance in online games and they want a significant amount of money for this performance.We want to know how much of a boost we can expect to get out of this purchase. The valuation of products for automobiles and computer hardware happen to be worlds apart. It’s funny that you mention a Corvette vs a Rio. You see for some people paying 75k for the former would be worth it just for the head turning affect alone but in the online gaming arena people don’t usually care about bragging on an expensive part especially if the performance increase is nominal or lacks good data to back it up.

Corvettes and Rios have been tested and each offer their own unique set of pros and cons. If the Killer NIC is the Corvette and the Rio is the Onboard NIC would you buy a Killer based on what Bigfoot Networks says it can do? If so I have closets and drawers full of old..er I mean vintage pc hardware that will play all of your games like a champ.

RE: Killer NIC Reviews have started coming out!!!!

mrp — Sun, 10 Sep 2006 08:17:15 GMT

Hot rodding PC's and Hot rodding cars have a lot in common, the initial tweaks to a system are cheap and the gains are high, as you move on the gains are less, and the cost goes up. That being said, I believe that the Killer Nic was correctly advertised, it's not for everyone. I preorderd one and put it in one of teenagers machines (he is ahead of me on the performance curve at the moment as I've been holding back on a new box), he has noticed improvements. I don't think this is the kind of product that you can benchmark well as there are too many variables in an online game that you will never be able to duplicate, it is going to come down to total game experience in the long run.
At this time it almost seems that there are 2 camps in the PC community, ppl that are willing to fill those slots on a MB with an item and those that stick with onboard solutions. Oblviously I'm in the add on camp, as I took a shot at one of these cards, I also don't use onboard sound, and I think Aegia has some great ideas/tech. Personally I'd like to buy a good MB without having to pay for all the crap on it that I don't need.

RE: Killer NIC Reviews have started coming out!!!!

Elios — Mon, 04 Sep 2006 20:37:08 GMT

jeepdave (9/4/2006)

Elios (9/3/2006)

but that was a one time thing look at the avgs

nots so good

fell free to send me hard ware ill give you a review based on whats in my box and what i play

but from what i have seen in the IGN review its not doing a whole a few ms and a few FPS there it may be doing what you say it is or it may be just bad/good luck with the routering its hard to tell

Elios,

Do you have a hardware review site? Me neither, that's why I don't have a Killer at my house...and I WORK there. Think the pre-order inventory was sold out Sat, have to check with Sales. We certainly can't send a card to EVERY doubter out there...

IGN, HardOCP, and SIX other top of the line hardware reviewers have the card. Not sure how much more of a 'pepsi challenge' we can take. Are you in Austin, TX? I know that HardOCP is looking for testers to bring into our offices in the next couple weeks for their own performance testing.

Also, we are not just looking at averages....I have had a small army of gamers in the office for 8 hours a day for about a month now. The results posted by IGN were test run HOTEL, as in the 8th 'official' performance test run. Each run goes does as follows: 2 identical systems (one with killer, one without), same game, same map, same GUN, stay close, play for 15 minutes with fraps running in background. Ping sample every 60 seconds, unless dead. Repeat that 5 times PER GAME, and switch players in between runs. Usually takes a full day to complete a single performance test run.

Value is in the eye of the beholder....like Tytus said, it's not for everyone...neither is Quad SLI or 30" LCD's. I don't think there is any point to the "is it worth $300" debate. (It's $279, BTW).

Is a Corvette 'worth' $75k? A Kia Rio will get you from point A to point B for $8,999.

yes but to use your ex. that Corvette wont you there any faster if traffic is backed up for 3 miles

RE: Killer NIC Reviews have started coming out!!!!

jeepdave — Mon, 04 Sep 2006 05:00:37 GMT

Elios (9/3/2006)

Elios,

Do you have a hardware review site? Me neither, that's why I don't have a Killer at my house...and I WORK there. Think the pre-order inventory was sold out Sat, have to check with Sales. We certainly can't send a card to EVERY doubter out there...

IGN, HardOCP, and SIX other top of the line hardware reviewers have the card. Not sure how much more of a 'pepsi challenge' we can take. Are you in Austin, TX? I know that HardOCP is looking for testers to bring into our offices in the next couple weeks for their own performance testing.

Also, we are not just looking at averages....I have had a small army of gamers in the office for 8 hours a day for about a month now. The results posted by IGN were test run HOTEL, as in the 8th 'official' performance test run. Each run goes does as follows: 2 identical systems (one with killer, one without), same game, same map, same GUN, stay close, play for 15 minutes with fraps running in background. Ping sample every 60 seconds, unless dead. Repeat that 5 times PER GAME, and switch players in between runs. Usually takes a full day to complete a single performance test run.

Value is in the eye of the beholder....like Tytus said, it's not for everyone...neither is Quad SLI or 30" LCD's. I don't think there is any point to the "is it worth $300" debate. (It's $279, BTW).

Is a Corvette 'worth' $75k? A Kia Rio will get you from point A to point B for $8,999.

RE: Killer NIC Reviews have started coming out!!!!

Elios — Sun, 03 Sep 2006 18:06:47 GMT

thats a repreview kinda not a real review

RE: Killer NIC Reviews have started coming out!!!!

Tytus — Sun, 03 Sep 2006 17:40:12 GMT

thanks for your opinion Elios,

Kyle of HardOCP.com was in our lab last week:

http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTE1MywxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==

Tytus

RE: Killer NIC Reviews have started coming out!!!!

Elios — Sun, 03 Sep 2006 16:07:16 GMT

Tytus (9/3/2006)

LOL, everyone wants to have hardware sent to them! Fancy that!

Seriously Elios, we're trying to fight Client Lag here: 10-15% improvement in FPS in online games is a good thing (for Client Lag)

And 3-10+ms of improved Latencies is a good thing (not to mention better stability that many users are reporting): All good things (for network Lag)

But Killer NIC isn't for everyone, and this website isn't just about Killer... so please keep contributing in the other areas, keep up the fight against Lag, and never give up: (Believe me, I havn't!!!)

Tytus

well the thing is 10-15 % can or can not be a lot it may be 10-15 FPS or it may be 1 to 2 fps we dont know becouse IGN didnt post any frame rates

you and i know both know you can sku data by using blind % like that

3-10ms is margen of error on a network i get more flux in my ping then that just form my ISPs backbone having **** poor QoS

i just saying your going about this the wrong way

even if this thing was 20 bucks it wouldnt be worth it with what im seeing on IGN
now whan hardOCP reviews it be aware kyle will be brurtal if thay get the same thing and thay will show FPS numbers

ill bet it wont be that great

RE: Killer NIC Reviews have started coming out!!!!

Tytus — Sun, 03 Sep 2006 13:53:49 GMT

RE: Killer NIC Reviews have started coming out!!!!

Elios — Sun, 03 Sep 2006 12:40:38 GMT

but that was a one time thing look at the avgs

nots so good
http://media.gear.ign.com/media/851/851177/img_3884655.html

frist off thay ran the test on a farly slow PC soo in the case of this a better vid card for 300 bucks would of neted a higher FPS gain in all the games tested

that aside

CS. your looking at an avg improvement of 3ms not much but its doing some thing. but thay may be in margen of error realy i would say margen of error for this kinda thing would be as big as 10ms aloting for bad routering and what not
as far as FPS the avg wasnt too bad 9.5% how many more FPS that was i dont know IGN OMITTED THIS (bad form IGN you cant omitt stuff like that) but if i had a X800 300 bucks gets you in to a 7900GT soo that i know for sure would give you more then 10%

CoD2. yea dont kow what happend there.... and i dont own it or play it soo ill take your word on that one

Quake4. Ping when UP 1.38ms again ill say realy no change here ether
as for the FPS .7% better margen of error here too so no change realy

Battlefiled(2?). this one was all over the place but im going to say thats the games code. and it shows in the avg. .05ms better ping thats so small know one is going to be able to tell
FPS .3% seeing as how theres no way to get a good demo out of this no change here realy ether once again a 7900GT would do more for you

FEAR. ok now your doing some thing for the frame rate but not 300 bucks worth of some thing
ping is .13ms better over all thats un-noticeable and very well could be just slighty better routering

WoW. again its doing some thing but pings are all over the place
this is one thing i was talking about if the server end is cloged to hell and back a nic wont help
FPS was better over all soo yea doing some thing but 300 bucks on a 7900GT will again gain more then 8% on this game

fell free to send me hard ware ill give you a review based on whats in my box and what i play

but from what i have seen in the IGN review its not doing a whole a few ms and a few FPS there it may be doing what you say it is or it may be just bad/good luck with the routering its hard to tell

RE: Killer NIC Reviews have started coming out!!!!

Tytus — Sun, 03 Sep 2006 05:32:58 GMT

thats the same type of results we've seen with COD2 and LLR turned on.

(Note: LLR can be turned off, and any decreases go away)

COD2 is just one of those games that is very different from the others in the way it does networking, and we havn't tweaked the stack yet for COD2 (but we will, and we will be doing patches as we go along)

But Fear, for example, is outstanding (our average around 10-15% better in fps). And CS:Source 10ms better ping and up to 10% better FPS...

Tytus

RE: Killer NIC Reviews have started coming out!!!!

Elios — Sat, 02 Sep 2006 21:55:14 GMT

so yea read both

sooo.... what happened there with CoD2 in the IGN one it had both WORCE pings and lower FPS?

Killer NIC Reviews have started coming out!!!!

Tytus — Fri, 01 Sep 2006 21:25:10 GMT

The first one was sort-a from HardOCP.com (although it was really more of a preview).

The second one (or first real one) came from IGN.COM

Would love to hear some reactions from you all about the reviews! I think they are great!

And for those reviewers still waiting for boards: believe me, we're getting them together as fast as we can!

Tytus